Oh, come on! Even the most prudish cultures have always known that nothing magically protects a girl from getting pregnant her first time, much as she might wish something did. I'm starting to think these rabbis must be pulling our legs. If anything, my suspicion is that Lot's daughters had figured out how their fertility cycles worked and simply used an inversion of the Catholics' beloved rhythm method to ensure that they were inseminated on their most fertile days. That's assuming each of them really did only rape their father one time apiece.
While Genesis certainly only mentions the one time, it's entirely possible it's simply indicating how their scheme typically went by telling us about the first time they pulled it and then leaving us to figure without having to have it all described to us again that they took turns with their father in the same manner every time they pulled this same scheme after that until they were both certain they were pregnant.
As to their legacy, it's true that Ruth the Moabite later did go on to sire David's line with Boaz and through that lineage, ultimately the Messiah. However, the Israelites' prescribed enmity with the Ammonites and Moabites did pretty much continue with everybody else in those nations. If anything, Ruth's reconciliation to God through marrying Boaz merely demonstrates that God was already working toward the abolition of collective historical culpability for ancestral sins: as prophesied in Jeremiah and Ezekiel , Ruth was no longer going to be held responsible for the sins of Lot's daughters with their father nor, for that matter, for the other sins the nation of Moab had committed against Israel in chapters of Numbers.
All these wild digressions from Biblical canon and the sheer absurdity of some of these speculations are one reason why the rabbinical writings of the Talmud will never rank much higher in my estimation than rather poorly written fan fiction. While it's worthwhile to know what ancient Israelites thought about various odd passages of Scripture, honoring these fanciful scribblings as anything more than the dubious opinions of fallible men would be subordinating the Scriptures to mere human traditions as God warned us against doing in Isaiah So, let's just talk about the incest when the worst act here is the pedophilia.
Why is that always skirted around? That would be because there wasn't any. The gals were betrothed to be married when they had to flee Sodom, which can only mean they must already have been of a marriageable age; by the standards of the time, that would place them in their early teens at the youngest and it's more likely considering that they took a while to get to their mountain dwelling and the daughters stated that they had to act soon if they wanted to have any offspring because their father was old enough that he wasn't going to be around much longer that they were in their later teens or even twenties.
Young teens were a lot more mature emotionally as well as physically in those days, since they had to grow up fast in order to survive, and everyone considered them adults back then; even in our time, fetishistic attraction to post-pubescent adolescents is known not as pedophilia which is such an attraction to pre-pubescent children , but as hebephilia younger adolescents or ephebophilia older adolescents.
In short, the parental incest is the issue at hand here. While God's laws against incest weren't in effect until Moses brought Leviticus and Deuteronomy to his people, it does remain that everybody else having children with a close relative such as Abraham with his half-sister Sarah was married to a peer, whereas these were unmarried gals were raping their much older father. Even before incest was outlawed, that was an awfully cruel betrayal of Lot's paternal trust and violation of their familial bonds to him.
In reply to That would be because there by Pinto. Pinto You have a very adept understanding of scripture including original jewish scripture! I have never had anyone, not priests, pastors, anyone explain reasoning behind biblical scripture, like you did as the first commenter! Also, to explain in a way, that I actually find common sense, understanding and agree with!
Would you be willing to take my information and look me up on facebook or some other site, just so that I could ask you questions and gain understanding about some of the scriptures or all of them? My name is Chrissy Lynn Castro Letson on facebook, if you happen to come back to this site and read this, please reach out to me. I have no other intentions, than to truly gain more wisdom. Wisdom and understanding, you clearly have and demonstrate eloquently without twisting and adding your own interpretation of scripture.
My email is chrissyfollowerofchrist gmail. God Bless and thank you for your enlightenment in your truthfull words! Chapter 19 of Sefer Ha Yashar indicates there was 5th Daughter One who was executed just before these events. One which was performing acts of chesed to the poor which was against the law in that land As it becoming in our own. It was her cry that got the attention of Elohim and cause the two angels to come into that land and validate And they found the situation worse than what they had heard In fact the cities were destroyed in a manner similar to how Paltith was executed Just to answer the bit about Lot's 4 daughters.
The bible does not specifically say that Lot had 4 daughters,but we can infer from the scriptures that he had at least 4 daughters.
Here we go. Genesis states that Lot went to his sons-in-law that had married his daughters. So we can infer that he had at least two married daughters. Then in Genesis he had two unmarried daughters. Based on this, we know for sure that Lot had at least 4 daughters. Sons-in-law in this instance refers to the men to whom his daughters were betrothed. By the standards of the day, even though they had not consumated the marriage, they were legally married, and would have to get a divorce which is what Joseph planned to quietly do when he found out Mary was pregnant in order to end the betrothal.
Where in the bible does it says that Lot had four daughters?
Let's be careful not to add to the word of God because it is a curse to do so. Many people come up with thoughts that are not written this is why people get confused and say that the bible is contradictory. The bible is not contradictory some just choose to add to it. God in his infinite wisdom inspired his servants to write it and through time man tried to change it. Let's let what is written stay written and live by it ,and learn from it,and stop adding to it so as to not confuse people. Jesus never tried to change the word whosoever asked him a question he started by saying it is written, so if he used what was written we to must use what is written.
What I find most incredible is the Islamic objection to the Biblical narrative as it is. From what I can understand, Lot is not considered a prophet in Christian theology, and I don't believe in Jewish either, but he is considered a prophet by Islam, and prophets just don't behave like Lot. Well, neither do righteous men, unless they have just lost most of their family, get drunk, and lose track of themselves. The Islamic view is that Lot offered his daughters in marriage, the Judeo-Christian view: for other reasons. End result of the incest are the Moabites and Ammonites, but also Ruth, in the lineage of David the King, and therefore the Messiah.
I don't seem to find it incredible that people make mistakes, including those who we call "righteous," or is it only misperception on my part? Muslims believe that Lot was a Prophet.
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He did no such thing as raping or incest. The Torah and Bible were changed over time due to corruption in religion and for a meager sum of money, the rabbis changed the original story to tarnish the character of Prophets and change the word of God who is the Almighty and Who is the only One. If I were the Rabbis I would've erased all the character flaws of the prophets, erased all the flaws of the Israelites their are many mentioned in the Bible , made Judaism patrilineal instead of matrilineal thus giving men access to a wide range of girls , not made so many difficult laws the law against eating pork makes sense in middle east Suffice to say if the Jewish people had gone out to change the Bible, it certainly wouldn't be the book that we have today.
And there is no proof of this historically and the Koran even says Quran says that the books of Moses, the Psalms, and the gospel were all given by God. Torah--"We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers," Sura Gospel--"It is He Who sent down to thee step by step , in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law of Moses and the Gospel of Jesus before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion of judgment between right and wrong ," Also, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," So if it is true what the Muslims -- claim that the Bible is corruptedTZ and full of contradictions -- then it would seem they do not believe the Qu'ran since the Qu'ran says that the Word of God cannot be altered:.
Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," This is indeed the supreme felicity," When Muhammed was alive, he claimed to receive the revelation of the Qu'ran from Allah. This means that at that time the Bible, which was in existence, could not have been corrupted because the Qu'ran states that God's word cannot be corrupted. The question I have for the Muslims is: "When and where was the Bible corrupted since the Qu'ran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah's words cannot be changed?
If lot was thinking of incest with his two daughters; why would it say Lot was a righteous man. A righteous man would not think such wicked thoughts. Sort of the way the Arabs were kind to the Jews in comparison to the Europeans, which is to say the Arabs were cruel Well today we have better knowledge than the rabbis about virgins' biological capacity to become pregnant upon first intercourse, and can correct the misperception of Gen.
I apologize for the very dated response but I am interested in your thoughts as it relates to your observation that " There is no need to convince you of the unknowable brilliance of God but regardless of the awe that brilliance engenders The point I am making concerns the contortions Torah scholars have engaged in for centuries to explain the incestuous encounter and the purpose designed by God himself. Christian are trapped within the same contortions given the lineage through Ruth to David to Jesus.
Both the Judaic and Christian apologetic are well presented above but the impact on the average person does nothing but cause a great deal of snickering on one hand or head scratching on the other.
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Could it be that through the lenses we have at our disposal there is another explanation? Could it be that God intends us to question all of scripture, be it Jew or Christian, to identify the crumbs that may lead us out of our darkness and back to the author himself? If so, the scriptures are more important today than anybody has estimated them to be in the past thousands of years. Kadari, Tamar. Jewish Women's Archive. Your name. About text formats. Web page addresses and email addresses turn into links automatically. Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
John Kirimi 2 months ago. Well researched and documented. Full of wisdom.. Vincent Rea 7 months ago. Anonymous 11 months ago. Joseph 1 year ago. Anonymous 9 months ago. Tameika 12 months ago. Anonymous 8 months ago. Annemarie 1 year ago. Michelle 12 months ago. William 4 months ago. Dalya 2 years ago. Anonymous 2 years ago. Chinese and Japanese. What nation came from lit and his daughters? Of course the Japanese is Ammon, Chinese is Moab. Mg 3 weeks ago. Shoshana 2 years ago.
Sorry somehow my previous post was duplicated. Jane 2 years ago. Could Lot have sex while he was intoxicated? I cannot reconcile this story. Pinto 2 years ago. Chrissyfollowe… 2 years ago. Eric Sandquist 3 years ago. Patrick 4 years ago. His adopted son, Octavian better known as Augustus , a title given to him 15 years later, in 27 BC thus became known as divi Iuli filius son of the divine Julius or simply divi filius son of the god.
The word applied to Julius Caesar as deified was divus , not the distinct word deus. Thus Augustus called himself Divi filius , and not Dei filius. Official portraits of Augustus made even towards the end of his life continued to portray him as a handsome youth, implying that miraculously, he never aged. Given that few people had ever seen the emperor, these images sent a distinct message. Later, Tiberius emperor from 14—37 AD came to be accepted as the son of divus Augustus and Hadrian as the son of divus Trajan.
Although references to "sons of God", "son of God" and "son of the L ORD " are occasionally found in Jewish literature, they never refer to physical descent from God. When used by the rabbis , the term referred to Israel or to human beings in general, and not as a reference to the Jewish mashiach. Gabriel's Revelation , also called the Vision of Gabriel  or the Jeselsohn Stone,  is a three-foot-tall one metre stone tablet with 87 lines of Hebrew text written in ink , containing a collection of short prophecies written in the first person and dated to the late 1st century BC.
The text seems to talk about a messianic figure from Ephraim who broke evil before righteousness by three days. This leader was referred to as a son of God. The text seems to be based on a Jewish revolt recorded by Josephus dating from 4 BC.
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In some versions of Deuteronomy the Dead Sea Scrolls refer to the sons of God rather than the sons of Israel, probably in reference to angels. The Septuagint reads similarly. It is debated if this figure represents the royal messiah, a future evil gentile king or something else. In 11Q13 Melchizedek is referred to as god the divine judge. Melchizedek in the bible was the king of Salem.
At least some in the Qumran community seemed to think that at the end of days Melchizedek would reign as their king. This style of naming is also used for some rabbis in the Talmud. It derives from several uses in the New Testament and early Christian theology. Islam rejects any kinship between God and any other being, including a son.
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As in Christianity, Islam believes Jesus had no earthly father. In Islam Jesus is believed to be born due to the command of God Allah "be". Islamic scholars debate whether or not, the title Son of God might apply to Jesus in a adoptive rather than generative sense, just like Abraham was taken as a friend of God.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Not to be confused with God the Son. For the Nas album, see God's Son album. For the film, see Son of God film. For other uses, see Son of God disambiguation. Main article: Messiah ben Joseph. Main article: Son of God Christianity. Retrieved 7 October Springfield, MA: Merriam-Webster. Japan Library Limited. Xiongnu people article. Retrieved Humanities Archived from the original on April 26, Eerdmans Publishing.
Retrieved 3 February Harvard University Press. Retrieved 16 March Jesus, Gnosis and Dogma. Retrieved 30 January Cambridge University Press. Retrieved 4 February Lawson Younger, Jr.
Son of man (Christianity)
University of Sheffield. Archived from the original PDF on 4 March History Today. National Geographic. Archived from the original on Biblical Archaeology Review. Time Magazine. New York Times.
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The tablet, probably found near the Dead Sea in Jordan according to some scholars who have studied it, is a rare example of a stone with ink writings from that era — in essence, a Dead Sea Scroll on stone. Hazon Gabriel. Society of Biblical Lit. Retrieved 2 April Heiser Retrieved 8 December Retrieved 8 February Neyrey Euguen, Oregon: Harvest House Publishers.
Surah An-Nisa . Surah Al-Ma'idah . Surah Ali 'Imran . Surah Al-Anbya .